type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:32 pm

Thanks Jeff, I actually ordered some type3 drums a little earlier.  Those drums look nice but the description says they'll only increase the track by 2mm, and I think I'll need at least 5mm to lose the adapters and have enough clearance on the springplates.  The type3 drums I got aren't german, I guess they are brazilian so I've got my fingers crossed they'll be some form of round when they arrive, lol.  I'll get them checked/turned when they arrive to make sure they are good to go.  

Now to start tracking down some backing plates and hardware.


Edit: I must have been typing the above text when you posted the second link. The second ones you posted are the ones I got.  I'll be the guinea pig and let you know how they turn out!

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by type4revolution on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:37 pm

They will work rigging ebrake can be fun though. Post your build looking forward to it . I will be doing one on disk brakes for the front real soon.
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:46 pm

Have you done the e-brake rigging on T3 plates before?  Will it be much different than the e-brake rigging I had to do for the type one plates?  I currently have the cables going under the springplates with a ghetto rigged homemade tube spacer set-up.  Looks bad, works good!  Laughing 


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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:12 pm

One more question.
Are these parts the same between type1 and type 3???  From what I've read online, I think they are, but not totally sure on that.


Oh, and what about the little clip that attaches to the back of the backing plate for the emergency brake cable, is that the same?

Just trying to figure out what of my old parts can be re-used.

THANKS!!!

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by type4revolution on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:17 am

Trial and error
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:26 am

Yeah, that's what I figured for the e-brake cable.  Cool  My drums should be here this week, and then I'll do a test fit to see if I can get the wheel on/off. If I can do that, then I'll start locating some backing plates and the rest of the goods.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by type4revolution on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:08 pm

Sounds like a plan. Let us know how it works out.
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by Grifspop on Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:35 pm

Hey Eric- I'll try to see if the emergency brake arm and shoe spreader things are the same, or different- when I went from Type 1 to Type 3 brakes on my Beetle, I used the original emergency brake cables that came with the '68 pan, used the Type 3 backing plates with their original adjusters, but added new shoes, wheel cylinders, and brake spring kit-
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:43 pm

Thanks Pete, I'd really appreciate it if you could check, but don't go ripping your drums of the car just to check! I'm in no rush since I'm just slowly gathering parts. All the online parts stores I've found that offer those pieces say that they can be used for either type 1 or type 3, so I'm guessing they are the same size.

What you did, sounds like the plan I'm hoping to follow, so I think I should be set.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by Grifspop on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:36 pm

Clyde with Athens German Aircooled had the wheel cylinders, and can probably get the shoes and the spring kits too- those are easy to source- I think the adjuster parts are the same- should be an easy swap for you, and with the increased braking, and elimination of the wheel adapters should put Bocephus right where you want him
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:46 pm

Well if all works out, I'll hit Clyde up for those parts! Just hoping everything fits. I know the drums are bigger around and wider so it really going to be iffy as to whether my current rims/tires will fit under through the wheelwell.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by DiggerD on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:14 pm

Seems like I remember getting type 3 brake shoes from Clyde when I did my brakes. I may have an extra set of type 3 backing plates around somewhere if you need some.
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:20 am

Yeah Darryl, if all works out, I may see if you still have those plates. I'll definitely need to buy some! Thanks.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:31 pm

Man, if it's not one thing, it's another.  
Got my drums today, but wasn't able to do a quick test fit.  The back side of the drums have an inner and outer lip, and the lip of the backing plate rides in between.  However, since the type 3 drum is a bigger diameter, the inner lip of the drum hits the lip on the type1 backing plate, so I can't get the stupid drum on all the way for my test!!!!  Mad

I guess this weekend, I'll pull the brakes off, remove the bearing cover, make a mess with gear oil, remove the backing plate, then put it back together without the backing plate/brakes and see if the wheel will go on/off.

It's also not looking promising that the aftermarket drum isn't getting near the same size difference that Pete's original drums got.  When laying flat on the ground, Pete's measured a .5" inch difference from the ground to the wheel mating surface.  I'm only getting about .35"

Furthermore, when you account for the backspacing, calculating from where the inside of the hub hits the outer spacer to the wheel mating surface, that difference is even smaller at about .2".  

In the pic below, both hubs are sitting on identical spray paint can caps to get them off the ground and simulate that the drums are riding on the bearing/outer spacer.  As you can see, the aftermarket type 3 drum still isn't as tall as the old drum with the spacer, so I'd likely have to go with the 185 size tire to avoid rubbing the spring plate.  More $$$ I wasn't wanting to spend.  

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by Grifspop on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:00 pm

I can't imagine that the 5 lug drums would be that different from the 4 lug drums- but I measured flat on the garage floor, not where they mount on the axle. You won't really know where the wheel sits in the fender opening until the drum is bolted to the axle-
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:21 am

Yeah I imagine OG five lugs probably aren't that different, but these aftermarkets have the word EMPI on them (which was not disclosed in the ad) and we all know empi isn't too concerned with getting details correct, lol. I'll report back this weekend after I get it on there.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by Slim4life on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:13 am

i can try to bring the square over and we can take a look at them next to each other
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:21 am

Thanks Zach, I may take you up on that, but hopefully I'll know a little more this weekend. I'm sure I can make it work, but it looks like this conversion is going to cost a little more than I was hoping for. I may just decide to send the drums back and keep the set-up I had.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by type4revolution on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:40 am

I believe early wide five type 3 drums are narrow. Type 3 four lug with the hubs Two piece design are much wider thus the desire for them also easy to make them 5x130 Porsche wheels
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by type4revolution on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 am

http://www.csp-shop.com/products/Products/Brakes%2CBrake_Systems_rear%2CBus/20843d/det/
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by type4revolution on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 am

Less service more bang foe your buck
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:17 am

Yeah, they seem a bit narrower, but as long as they can use the 45mm wide shoes, I'd still be up for using them so long as they'll fit.  If not, I'll probably just return these and try the thing drums so I can still ditch the adapters (though I won't get the extra braking I was hoping for)

I'd love that CSP disc set-up, but my budget can barely afford the two slightly narrower tires I'm thinking about buying.  $1,500US is definitely out of my reach currently.    Laughing

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by Grifspop on Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:35 pm

I was under the impression that once you had the backing plates on, and the brake components installed, you could run the wide 5 or the 4 lug drums, and they were interchangeable- you could find out for sure by calling ISP West- they're Type 3 experts and carry a great selection of Type 3 parts
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by fluxcap on Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:17 am

I measured this morning, and the brake surface of the wide 5 drum appears to measure about 53mm. So it should have the room for the 45mm wide shoes and I do think everything will be compatible, just not sure if the overall width of the drum once mounted will give me the tire clearance I need.

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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

Post by Grifspop on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:56 pm

I know that you don't want to run spacers or adapters if you don't have to
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Re: type 1 vs type 3 brake drums (and now Thing drums added to page 4)

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