Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

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Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by rpm750 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:16 am

Ok, I have bad clutch chater. Tube was welded in before I got car, new mounts, (motor and trans). I noticed it was real bad last night, there were three of us in the car. I'm thinking that the Bouden tube has to be it. It was replaced when the trany was rebuilt in 2000. I bought this car in 2001 and it has been under construction at times over the last 8 yrs. I've put about 350mls on it since the first part of Oct. It also shutters when shifting from 1st to 2nd. 3rd and 4th are perfect. I don't think its the trany. Clutch, presure plate, flywheel, Bouden tube or maybe the tube is loose. I haven't checked the tube yet.

I installed a new throw out bearing but not the clutch or plate.
I remember loading the car back in 2000 and it had this chater then but I thought then that maybe it was just me, well it still could be me. affraid
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by bumblebuggy on Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:31 am

Chatter is usually just a simple adjustment of the wing nut on the trany arm.

While you're down there, check that there is enough bow in the bowden tube (think It's 3/4 inch of deflection). If the bow isn't big enough you may not be getting enough preload. You can increase the deflection by sliding washers onto one end of the tube to make it compress slightly thus giving it more bow. Also it (the tube) could have too much deflection and if there aren't washers on it already you'll probably need the proper size tube for it. Other causes could be, a leaky main seal that's throwing oil on the clutch, flywheel needs resurfacing, or even a temperature change (metal expansion/contraction) from the weather. Start with the wingnut and adjust the pedal. Clutch cables certainly stretch over a period of use and this is the problem 80% of the time as I understand it.
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by Pop in NW Ga on Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:44 pm

... I wish you luck adjusting away clutch chatter.

I have never been so fortunate.

In my experience the disc/flywheel face had a bit of oil present. Even a trace of grease from the pilot bearing is enough to get things shakin' back there. If trace oil or grease is present on the face of the flywheel or pressure plate or even the disc then the steel surfaces will not slide against the disc and they tend to grab, hence the chatter.
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by 69panel on Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:00 pm

I agree with Pop.
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by meinvw on Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:32 pm

What angle is your bowden tube? Any way to take a pic? Have had chatter from oil as Pop mentioned but most of my problems like that have been the tube not bent right. Still amazes me that the bend there can be that much of a pain!
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by rpm750 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:00 pm

Kind of an update.
I had Carb problems. Went back set timing which turns out was at about 50deg@2500-3000 rpm. Backed that down to around 28-30 deg and adjusted the idle settings. Much much better. This has taken some, not all, my chatter out. I think the car was really stumbling from dead stop. Chatter from 1st to 2nd is about the same though. She runs really smooth now.


Last edited by rpm750 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by fluxcap on Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:28 am

rpm750 wrote:Kind of an update.
I had Carb problems. Went back set timing which turns out was at about 50deg@2500-3000 rpm. Backed that down to around 28-30 deg and adjusted the idle settings. Much much better. This has taken some not all my chatter out. I think the car was really stumbling from dead stop. Chatter from 1st to 2nd is about the same though. She runs really smooth now.

50deg Shocked That's high. Glad it is getting better though.

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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by meinvw on Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:59 am

Take your clutch cable wing nut off and pull the bowden out. Throw a few washers over the end of the tube then put it back in its holder and set everything back. See if that helps. If you can get a pic of the angle on it might can see how many shims you need. Not sure of the exact bend needed, maybe 30 deg? Can usually tell by looking when its out.
Stumbling on the take off can be accel pump, what carb/s do you have? Have seen numerous carbs rebuilt and the bearing for the pump not taken out and cleanned.
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by Joe on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:43 am

In the Haynes Manual it says the bowden tube should have 1" to 1 13/16" sag.

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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by meinvw on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:32 pm

Joe wrote:In the Haynes Manual it says the bowden tube should have 1" to 1 13/16" sag.
That sounds right. Had to play with my old 62 for awhile to get it right, tube was way off.
The angle on it is one of the things that just drives me nuts. Not getting it correct but just the physics of why it works that way. Does not make any sense to me, the arm is on a single axis so why does the tube need the bend?!?! Uh-oh, I smell smoke again, better quit thinking about it for awhile!!!
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by Pop in NW Ga on Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:02 pm

... I have pondered the physics of the Bowden tube myself, man. It is a mystifying piece I must admit. I have never seen anything like it on other vehicles! My theory is the tube slows the action of the pedal/swing of the lever by binding the cable and keeps the clutch from being "dumped" for lack of a better word.
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by Joe on Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:54 pm

I gave up on tring to figure out things on V Duds.
I'm an old Chevy guy and everything is completely backwards from what I know. lol!

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Update

Post by rpm750 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:54 pm

I've been real busy working on this problem.

I've gone back to stock mounts, new bowden tube, clutch disk and another used cross shaft. Sat I got the thing back together and later Sat night something happened. I took the engine out today and here is what I found.....

Throw Bearing....


Pressure plate....


I think the pressure plate failed and the damage to the surfaces was caused by that. I went to Herrell's and got another pressure plate and TOB. I also installed a new cross shaft.

Cross Shaft...

One of the arms on the PP feels softer than the other two.

At any rate my chatter for now is gone, the clutch pedal feels nice and it has great action. I'm hoping everything stays together.

Here's a pic of the bowden tube...
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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by fluxcap on Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:04 pm

Cool man! I figured you must have found something when the torque tool was still on the doorstep. Glad to hear it is going smooth. Now put a few test miles on it before next weekend!

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Re: Clutch Chatter from Dead Stop

Post by Attorney Isaiah Loophole on Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:11 pm

Hopefully Bob is happy when he replies after installing the new pressure plate

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